One other thing: if being a "grown up" gamer these days means I have to play games that "do not have goals and do not require skill, only that you devote a tremendous amount of time to mindlessly build stats and keep on top of other players", then I'll gladly keep wearing that "poopy diaper".
For being "crybabies" and "cult members", they sure do make a lot of good points. I think the following quotes sums the whole problem with this video up perfectly: "It's not that arcades were dissed and a handful a fanboys are whining about it, an entire style of gameplay was marginalized and dismissed as shallow because you refuse to consider it's form of depth." and "I don't think the "negative feedback" is from people trying to say the arcade is alive or is better than home gaming. It's just that there's SO MANY WRONG THINGS on this video. I won't disagree, Arcades aren't 5% as popular as they used to be, but that's the *only* thing this video got right." Doesn't sound like whining to me. In fsct, that sounds pretty rational and well thought out, as opposed to "...arcades are just the video game industry's poopy diaper. And we're all grown up now and using the big boy potty at home." and "Alright! Looks like the crybaby arcade fanboys and neo geo cult memebers are back!" Seriously.
Booyakasha: if you can prove that everything said in this video are 100% true facts and not just opinions, then I will concede defeat. eugeneleyritz: if you have so much work to do for Microsoft and SOE, what in the world are you doing here? To prove to a bunch of strangers that you're right and we're wrong? Well, I hope it feels so good to be right. There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?
To Jeremiah Black: I can't argue with the facts about the Neo that you stated; but if the games were "just very boring and not the kind of games people wanted", as the presenter claimed, then why were most of them ported to the majority of the 16 and 32 bit systems? There had to have been some kind of demand for them, don't you think? Amd there's still that insulting "all arcade games suck" comment to address. To Booyakasha: I can only speak for myself, and I do not have an egenda regarding the continued health of arcades. I'm more interested in seeing that facts are reported in a history video, not opinions.
To Jeremiah Black: Thanks for your response, but you addressed nothing that I brought up at all. Are you going to have your presenters saying stuff in the "Return of the Arcade" video like this: "Remember all that stuff I said about the Neo Geo before? Well, I was just yanking your chain. People loved to play the games the Neo had, that's why it lasted for 15 years." Or maybe "So I said it was impossible to play sports games in the arcade. I was only kidding! I've played NFL Blitz and NBA Jam loads of times!" The fact remains that the opinions stated by your presenters are being passed off as facts, which they clearly aren't, and why you're avoiding this particular issue I don't know. Attempting to use the fact that each program is only eight minutes long as an excuse for presenting opinions as facts I don't get either. Simply put: when producing anything (a paper, a book, a video) about the history of anything, the facts should be told and the opinions left to message boards, not the other way around.
To Jeremiah Black: I read your last posts with great interest. However, not once did you say exactly how you're going to address the comments made by the presenters that were 100% wrong. You talk about consoles dominating gaming right now as if whether or not that's true is the issue at hand here. It's not. It's that you're presenting opinions as facts, which is wrong. Your presenters made incorrect statements and assumptions about many arcade stanbys (the Neo Geo and arcade sports titles especially) and flat-out insulting blanket statements about all arcade titles, the worst of which I quoted directly in my initial post. That you actually allowed a presenter to state explicitly that all arcade titles suck and then left that in the video still boggles my mind. And having another presenter saying that arcades died so we could have games like Oblivion and WoW? What were you thinking? editor covered this in his last couple of posts, and I agree with him completely. Look at it this way: I'm both an arcade enthusiast and a console enthusiast, but I can't stand MMORPGs and FPS games. Now if I were to make and release a video claiming that both genres suck and all MMORPG and FPS games are worthless - my opinion - and presented it as a fact, wouldn't that raise some people's ire? It's obviously just my opinion. How would I be able to fix that? My error would be compounded if I ended up making inaccurate statements about both genres during the course of the video and presenting them as facts as well. My credibility would be shot to hell at that point. If you're going to present opinions, then say so at the beginning of the video! If not, your less-informed viewers are going to take these opinions as facts, and I was under the impression that you were trying to keep your viewers informed of the facts, not someone's opinion. So please tell us just how you plan to address all of these incorrect "facts" that were presented in this video - and a "Return of the Arcade" video isn't going to cut it, so please don't fall back on that.
This has to be the most uninformed video on the "death" of the arcade that I've ever seen. It all broke down right when they got to the Genesis. No, 'broke down' is too kind. It was like watching a wobbly, hobo-filled train derail so hard that it rips a hole in the fabric of space and time itself that leads into a new dimension of complete horses***. That video is straddling the line between stupidity and mocking a viewpoint to the level that I can't tell if they did it on purpose or not. I really like how they talk about how games and gamers grew up and moved on to superior stuff, but then show X-Box Live without mentioning the crapload of people that download slightly updated versions of 80's and 90's arcade games. I'm not talking about people in Japan, either. I'm talking about people in America.
And now to specifically address certain quotes from this video:
"I mean, how do you play a sports game in the arcade? It's like, impossible."
I'm not entirely sure how to play a sports game in the arcade. Maybe I should ask Midway, the creators of Arch Rivals and Pigskin 621 A.D.? Or perhaps SNK, who made Baseball Stars, Neo Turf Masters, and Super Sidekicks? And then there's Capcom Bowling, NFL Blitz (also by Midway), Rollergames by Konami... need I continue?
"The real case in point for this is Neo Geo. This was a system that was designed to be as good at home as it is in the arcade. The games were the same in both, and even though the price point was abnormally high, the games were just very boring and they weren't the kind of games people wanted."
Then how, may I ask, did the Neo survive for 15 years?
"What was interesting is that when you're in the arcade, basically putting in quarters and you're trying to last as long as you can on a limited amount of money and there's a real financial incentive. When you get Final Fight at home and you can just continue to play until you beat it, it totally sucks any fun and you realize right away that those games suck."
Really? Tell that to the people who spend money on arcade compilations such as Capcom Classics Collection, Taito Legends, Namco Museum, Midway's Arcade's Greatest Hits and so on. To make a blanket statement like that is insulting to the people that play arcade games to this day, and it's insulting to the people who created the games, not to mention insulting to the games themselves. And the fact that this statement saying that every arcade game ever made sucks was left in this video makes me wonder how you people have the balls to say that this is "your guide to gaming history."
"So we grew up, and the games grew up, but the arcades, well they couldn't grow up and they couldn't change so they died. But they died for us. They died so we could have Oblivion and World of Warcraft and really complex, artistic games like that."
It's amazing to hear non-skill-based interactive time-wasting with no ultimate goal described as complex and artistic.
Play Value - The Death of Arcades
One other thing: if being a "grown up" gamer these days means I have to play games that "do not have goals and do not require skill, only that you devote a tremendous amount of time to mindlessly build stats and keep on top of other players", then I'll gladly keep wearing that "poopy diaper".Play Value - The Death of Arcades
For being "crybabies" and "cult members", they sure do make a lot of good points. I think the following quotes sums the whole problem with this video up perfectly: "It's not that arcades were dissed and a handful a fanboys are whining about it, an entire style of gameplay was marginalized and dismissed as shallow because you refuse to consider it's form of depth." and "I don't think the "negative feedback" is from people trying to say the arcade is alive or is better than home gaming. It's just that there's SO MANY WRONG THINGS on this video. I won't disagree, Arcades aren't 5% as popular as they used to be, but that's the *only* thing this video got right." Doesn't sound like whining to me. In fsct, that sounds pretty rational and well thought out, as opposed to "...arcades are just the video game industry's poopy diaper. And we're all grown up now and using the big boy potty at home." and "Alright! Looks like the crybaby arcade fanboys and neo geo cult memebers are back!" Seriously.Play Value - The Death of Arcades
Booyakasha: if you can prove that everything said in this video are 100% true facts and not just opinions, then I will concede defeat. eugeneleyritz: if you have so much work to do for Microsoft and SOE, what in the world are you doing here? To prove to a bunch of strangers that you're right and we're wrong? Well, I hope it feels so good to be right. There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?Play Value - The Death of Arcades
To Jeremiah Black: I can't argue with the facts about the Neo that you stated; but if the games were "just very boring and not the kind of games people wanted", as the presenter claimed, then why were most of them ported to the majority of the 16 and 32 bit systems? There had to have been some kind of demand for them, don't you think? Amd there's still that insulting "all arcade games suck" comment to address. To Booyakasha: I can only speak for myself, and I do not have an egenda regarding the continued health of arcades. I'm more interested in seeing that facts are reported in a history video, not opinions.Play Value - The Death of Arcades
To Jeremiah Black: Thanks for your response, but you addressed nothing that I brought up at all. Are you going to have your presenters saying stuff in the "Return of the Arcade" video like this: "Remember all that stuff I said about the Neo Geo before? Well, I was just yanking your chain. People loved to play the games the Neo had, that's why it lasted for 15 years." Or maybe "So I said it was impossible to play sports games in the arcade. I was only kidding! I've played NFL Blitz and NBA Jam loads of times!" The fact remains that the opinions stated by your presenters are being passed off as facts, which they clearly aren't, and why you're avoiding this particular issue I don't know. Attempting to use the fact that each program is only eight minutes long as an excuse for presenting opinions as facts I don't get either. Simply put: when producing anything (a paper, a book, a video) about the history of anything, the facts should be told and the opinions left to message boards, not the other way around.Play Value - The Death of Arcades
To Jeremiah Black: I read your last posts with great interest. However, not once did you say exactly how you're going to address the comments made by the presenters that were 100% wrong. You talk about consoles dominating gaming right now as if whether or not that's true is the issue at hand here. It's not. It's that you're presenting opinions as facts, which is wrong. Your presenters made incorrect statements and assumptions about many arcade stanbys (the Neo Geo and arcade sports titles especially) and flat-out insulting blanket statements about all arcade titles, the worst of which I quoted directly in my initial post. That you actually allowed a presenter to state explicitly that all arcade titles suck and then left that in the video still boggles my mind. And having another presenter saying that arcades died so we could have games like Oblivion and WoW? What were you thinking? editor covered this in his last couple of posts, and I agree with him completely. Look at it this way: I'm both an arcade enthusiast and a console enthusiast, but I can't stand MMORPGs and FPS games. Now if I were to make and release a video claiming that both genres suck and all MMORPG and FPS games are worthless - my opinion - and presented it as a fact, wouldn't that raise some people's ire? It's obviously just my opinion. How would I be able to fix that? My error would be compounded if I ended up making inaccurate statements about both genres during the course of the video and presenting them as facts as well. My credibility would be shot to hell at that point. If you're going to present opinions, then say so at the beginning of the video! If not, your less-informed viewers are going to take these opinions as facts, and I was under the impression that you were trying to keep your viewers informed of the facts, not someone's opinion. So please tell us just how you plan to address all of these incorrect "facts" that were presented in this video - and a "Return of the Arcade" video isn't going to cut it, so please don't fall back on that.Play Value - The Death of Arcades
This has to be the most uninformed video on the "death" of the arcade that I've ever seen. It all broke down right when they got to the Genesis. No, 'broke down' is too kind. It was like watching a wobbly, hobo-filled train derail so hard that it rips a hole in the fabric of space and time itself that leads into a new dimension of complete horses***. That video is straddling the line between stupidity and mocking a viewpoint to the level that I can't tell if they did it on purpose or not. I really like how they talk about how games and gamers grew up and moved on to superior stuff, but then show X-Box Live without mentioning the crapload of people that download slightly updated versions of 80's and 90's arcade games. I'm not talking about people in Japan, either. I'm talking about people in America. And now to specifically address certain quotes from this video: "I mean, how do you play a sports game in the arcade? It's like, impossible." I'm not entirely sure how to play a sports game in the arcade. Maybe I should ask Midway, the creators of Arch Rivals and Pigskin 621 A.D.? Or perhaps SNK, who made Baseball Stars, Neo Turf Masters, and Super Sidekicks? And then there's Capcom Bowling, NFL Blitz (also by Midway), Rollergames by Konami... need I continue? "The real case in point for this is Neo Geo. This was a system that was designed to be as good at home as it is in the arcade. The games were the same in both, and even though the price point was abnormally high, the games were just very boring and they weren't the kind of games people wanted." Then how, may I ask, did the Neo survive for 15 years? "What was interesting is that when you're in the arcade, basically putting in quarters and you're trying to last as long as you can on a limited amount of money and there's a real financial incentive. When you get Final Fight at home and you can just continue to play until you beat it, it totally sucks any fun and you realize right away that those games suck." Really? Tell that to the people who spend money on arcade compilations such as Capcom Classics Collection, Taito Legends, Namco Museum, Midway's Arcade's Greatest Hits and so on. To make a blanket statement like that is insulting to the people that play arcade games to this day, and it's insulting to the people who created the games, not to mention insulting to the games themselves. And the fact that this statement saying that every arcade game ever made sucks was left in this video makes me wonder how you people have the balls to say that this is "your guide to gaming history." "So we grew up, and the games grew up, but the arcades, well they couldn't grow up and they couldn't change so they died. But they died for us. They died so we could have Oblivion and World of Warcraft and really complex, artistic games like that." It's amazing to hear non-skill-based interactive time-wasting with no ultimate goal described as complex and artistic.